Curse

xenoranger · Jun 01, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

I notice on alot of the necromancing builds, people pour 16 levels into stuff that doesn't make much sense. I can understand death when running an MM build, but other than that, most skills get a severe diminishing return after 11 levels. THat just never made much sense. You could be dumping attrib points into other areas and still getting an acceptable level of efficiency. Even with Death Builds (non-MM) I never go to 16 without EXCELLENT reason.

So, anyone have any insight on this one, b/c I'm very curious to hear more on the subject.

Weakling · Jun 01, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

If you're running a build with multiple disciplines i.e. some blood skills and some curse skills which are almost equally important to being succesfull, not going max on the attribs can be a very good thing.

However I don't see a reason to not max out if your skillbar consists of mostly death or mostly curses. When running an SS build having 37 damage is much more comfortable than having 31. Not that it's not possible getting around with just 31, but 37 makes your work a bit easier imo.

remmeh · Jun 01, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

agreed with the above. if you're going to be a necro, why not be the best necro you can be? (plug for the u.s. military)

but unless you're running a very eclectic build (which i rarely do) it's worth it for that extra oomph so-to-speak.

now in pvp, superior vs. minor is a different story...

Nivrax Deathbringer · Jun 01, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

SS on duo with monk --> someone even say its not enough and takes item +1 20% chance f curses. Its for quicker killing of Aataxes and, especialy, smites (they must be dead before SV runs out).

And most time build with skills from 2-3 atribbute are better than one taking skills from 4-5 atribs. And if you have, for example, 4 skills from death, 2 from blood and 1 from Curses (+res :P) then its more efficent at full death (12) and blood and curse on lvl 9 (+1 from minors). Its works better than build with all atribs on lvl 10-11.

Jetdoc · Jun 01, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

When soloing, I rarely use 16 as 14 is generally enough to get the job done.

When PvPing, I almost always utilize 16 in my primary skillset because:

1. Your goal is to take out your opponent as quickly as possible, and every bit of extra damage helps, especially in an attack chain.

2. Spreading out your attributes isn't as desireable because the utility of gaining that one skill in another attribute isn't nearly as important as #1 above. Soul Reaping also isn't as much of a focus unless you're in a large battle (i.e. 12v12) or working with a spirit spammer/minion master, so that takes away one of your obvious allocable attribute lines. I normally stay strictly with a 16/13 attribute split (or 16/12 if I decide to use my secondary), with the extra 6 attribute points put either in Soul Reaping or in another single skill (e.g. Distortion).

3. The 75 extra health will likely not save you when you're under focused fire due to your relatively low AL and lack of protection spells.

4. The 75 health penalty will actually reduce your healer's burden when you're saccing, as there will be a smaller margin to make up.

Mr D J · Jun 01, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

woops misread that this was in necro topic...

frickett · Jun 01, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

I never use Major or Superior runes, Other than vigor or absorbtion. I don't like the -health dings. My max attribute level is 14. (minor rune and headgear)
This is for pve-ing anyway.

I might put extra runes in during pvp on my pvp slot, but not usually.

Jetdoc · Jun 01, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

1. Your goal is to take out your opponent as quickly as possible, and every bit of extra damage helps, especially in an attack chain.

For example, in a typical Blood Spike chain where you are using:

Shadow Strike --> Barbed Signet --> Dark Pact ---> Vampiric Gaze ---> Dark Pact ---> Vampiric Gaze

The difference between 16 and 14 in your Blood Magic attribute is 38 damage, which may make the difference in a multiple necro spike as to whether that target lives or dies.

Ole Man Bourbon · Jun 02, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

The reason you want 16 is because most builds are driven by only 1 or 2 key skills, which need to be maxed out to be competitive. Jack-of-all-trade builds are good for farming, but suck ass in PvP, basically.

xenoranger · Jun 02, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Perhaps I do somethign wrong in my builds, but I plan against power Block memsers and other possibilities. It's happened to me in PVP where I've come across a power blocker that hit me at teh wrong time. Boom.. all blood skills were gone. Sure spiking seems nice, but I find relying on 1 chain too much is bad b/c of Power Blockers and other possibilities.

Although the chances of a Power BLock mesmer are slim, I try to pull from 2-3 chains and keep it at 11+ for the major areas of focus.My builds generally work this way... but I can see why you'd push somethign to 16 now in some cases. Thanks.

frickaline · Jun 02, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I'm assuming you are talking pvp only, because I'd think there'd be lots of builds where 16 is nice in pve, particularly ss.

zaza · Jun 02, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weakling

If you're running a build with multiple disciplines i.e. some blood skills and some curse skills which are almost equally important to being succesfull, not going max on the attribs can be a very good thing.

However I don't see a reason to not max out if your skillbar consists of mostly death or mostly curses. When running an SS build having 37 damage is much more comfortable than having 31. Not that it's not possible getting around with just 31, but 37 makes your work a bit easier imo.

With Awaken the blood you can do 41 instead of 37, i think that is level 18

Blacktemplar · Jun 02, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Sometimes I use awaken the blood for timing purposes, so I can wait for sv to kick in. With my new build in two man uw runs, I find it a waste of time when I can use defile enchantment as waiting time for sv and then echo ss. Having 16 in anything doesn't really matter in some situations. For two man uw run, I can deal with 37 dmg on smites with the same killing speed or even faster. It always depends on multiple variables, place, timing, situation wtv.

Evilsod · Jun 03, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Unless your considering putting 16 into Soul Reaping, why not? Its true with those 20 attribute points you save on 1 you could put elsewhere, but aren't you usually using 2 lines with only the 3rd for 1 or 2 skills? My SS/BR uses very little Blood so i don't lose out on SR or damage. My order necro however, uses a nice balance or 15 Blood, 10 Healing, rest in SR. In this sense i don't see the point in maxing out Blood in the slightest, you 'should' have 5 rangers with you, on the primary target (been the monk i would imagine) your gonna be losing out on 1 damage each attack, but these rangers utterly spam Barrage and occasioanlly spam Savage Shot after it. Your target is going down regardless. If not, it will probably end up back at full health with extra healin to spare, so the extra damage means nothing.

I've really fallen out of love with Awaken the blood, its too much hastle. Costs 10 energy, makes you waste stats in an attribute line you don't really need and easily converts into 100 damage when its Shattered.

Blacktemplar · Jun 03, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

^Huh? I don't get what you are saying no offence.

Tingi · Jun 03, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

i completely agree. I only use 16 wen running MM or PvP bspike. But other than that, lower it to 15 wen running random builds.

Huckebain · Jun 03, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Don't forget, sacrificing is based off of your maximum HP.

If you can avoid danger with protection spells from monks, or just plain avoid the enemies attacking you, by sacrificing less health it's easier to heal, and that -75hp really helps in taking off sac damage.

Quantum Nirvana · Jun 03, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckebain

Don't forget, sacrificing is based off of your maximum HP.

If you can avoid danger with protection spells from monks, or just plain avoid the enemies attacking you, by sacrificing less health it's easier to heal, and that -75hp really helps in taking off sac damage.

When the ettins use to net valuable gold armors for me (oh..the good ol' days) I would always take my MM out with 3 (death soul and blood) superior runes. If i recall my health was around 296hp. Since MM'ing it was so easy in that particular location, I could deal with the lower maximum health and reap the benefits from the low health saccing. It wasn't really about getting max attributes into one line, but to spread the love with the rest of the attributes as well.

Other than that, I'll usually stay with just one superior for most builds. If I know an area of PvE is diffucult or is PvP, I'll armor swap either after dying or before battle depending greatly on the situation. OMG IT'S BLOOD SPIKE! MAX HEALTH HURRY! >_<

derrtyboy69 · Jun 03, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

http://img308.imageshack.us/img308/4052/50008ri.gif

Thats why :P

TheLordOfBlah · Jun 04, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

SS
Battery
MM

It goes on...